Ginny & Georgia's Sara Waisglass Explains Max's Season 3 Spiral: 'This Is the Exact Mental Torture That Would Kill Max'
In Ginny & Georgia season 3, the titular characters are one again going through it. But amidst all the high stakes drama of Georgia Miller's murder trial and Ginny coping with the trauma of being separated from her mom and brother, another character is also starting to have a really weird time: Maxine Baker, played by Degrassi alum Sara Waisglass. Major spoilers ahead for the last episode of season 3.
In the Netflix show's first two seasons, Max is mostly a theatrical, intensely emotive plot catalyst for Ginny's high school experiences — the two are fast friends and click instantly despite their sometimes opposite temperaments. Max brings Ginny out of her shell, while Ginny invites Max into the real world, helping her realize not everything is about her. (Here, Max might interject with a Taylor Swift lyric: But what if it is? )
“It was a tough one for little old Maxi pad,” Sara Waisglass tells Teen Vogue with an exaggerated frown. Waisglass, 26, resonates with Max's struggles deeply in season 3, which side plots Max's slow descent into despair about her the dissolution of her friendships and her twin brother Marcus's alcohol abuse.
So where might Max go in Ginny & Georgia season 4? Well, it might get worse before it gets better. Below, Sara Waisglass unpacks this turbulent season, Max's motivations, and why she's okay with Max and Ginny's friendship (potentially) coming to an end.
Teen Vogue: What did you think when you first read the scripts about how everyone's story shakes out in Ginny & Georgia season 3?
Sara Waisglass: My favorite thing about this season [is that] it was kind of meta in a way. It really was about Georgia's trial, [but] it was the trials and tribulations of Georgia Miller. We're rooting for her, we want her to get off free, but we're exposing all of the horrible things she's done and it makes you take a look at your behavior and ethics and what's okay and what's not and I thought that was pretty amazing to play with. Especially because we spent two years falling in love with these characters and wanting what's best for them.
For Max, I was just really proud of her for trying to be such a good friend. Knowing Ginny's going through the roughest time, she's so excited that she finally gets to be there for her. When that kind of gets more difficult as her attempts get rejected, I think that's also a really interesting perspective to take on because for me, definitely in high school, there were times where my friends hung out without me and it was a knife to the heart.
TV: No, totally. What you were saying about how we spent two seasons getting to know these characters — now we know why everyone acts the way they do. Every time someone says something, I'm like, okay, that makes sense, but also that makes sense. I was thinking that about Max's friendship with Abby. We've learned so much about why Abby can be so mean all the time, but she does have a right to come out on her own terms. How do you think about that friendship?
SW: I think Max and Abby are pretty unbreakable in the sense that they've grown up together, as we saw through those cute little flashbacks, which I loved so, so much. I do think neither of them is in the wrong, Abby wants to like someone without it being this huge thing, and Max's whole thing is being huge and being out there and being vocal. Do I think Abby went about it in the right way? No.
Max's biggest thing is loyalty and so to have her friends keeping secrets from her, that hurts and that is a huge betrayal. It may not matter as much to someone else, but to Max, that's a very painful thing to go through. I care about Max more than anybody, I'm a little biased, but I really felt for her in that scenario too. She just went through it last season with Ginny not telling her about Marcus, and now Abby's not telling her about something huge in her life, and it's just so sh*tty. I think she's going to start wondering what she's doing wrong as a friend. That's also an interesting place to take Max in the future.
TV: Yeah, it was such a frustrating watch because it's like, everyone is taking their valid space from Max, but they're doing it in a way where they're shocked that she's angry, that she's hurt. I'm like, okay, you can do whatever you want, but she can be really mad at you about it.
SW: Of course. I feel like Max [had] regular reactions to things this season, and everyone was like, "Oh my God, you're literally so dramatic. You're making it all about you." That is like the exact type of mental torture that would kill Max, and it is.
TV: That line “you're making it about you” has come up throughout the series —the characters go back and forth with each other about who is making a given situation about themselves in any moment. I was curious what you think about that. Where is the line between “you are making it about you” in the way that Ginny experiences where it's never about her and she's trying to take up space in the world, and when it's kind of weaponized by other characters against Max or against other people in a way that's like, “Well, it's about you and that means you can't have any feelings about it at all.”
SW: I actually think that my generation, the younger generation, we are so quick to be like, “It's my life and I have to live it the way I want to” and we do tend to forget that there are so many other entities involved and there are so many other energies that we have to brush up against.
There's a certain tact you need to have when you're doing something for yourself because you should be aware that you actions do have negative effects on other people sometimes, and you do have to take responsibility for that. If you're going to take action, you need to know that there are consequences. So I think it's all good and fine to be yourself and to understand that something is about you and you're making it about you, and it has to be for that reason, but I think that the downfall of that or the outcome of that is also your responsibility.
TV: Totally. As you mention, we do get to see Max as a kid for the first time in this season. What do you think she was like as a child?
SW: Honestly, I think she was just like me as a child. When I was a kid, I was so unapologetically myself and so freaking cute and giddy and big and wanted to perform, so I feel like Max was the exact same way. It's hard when kids grow up like that because they don't know how to make space for other people for a while. Max has grown up in a way where she really does believe that everyone should be loud and outspoken and talk about their feelings and be out there.
TV: To your point, Max is okay with other people having big emotions as well. I feel like that's such a special quality to have in a person that's like, “I'm going to have my big feelings, but you are also allowed and encouraged to have yours.” None of the characters seem to really grasp that this is a great thing that they have on their hands.
SW: I think she has vulnerability as a superpower, and she wants that for everyone else because she thinks there's so much freedom in that, and when you hold your feelings in, that's just complicating a lot of sh*t. Whereas if you live your heart on your sleeve, I think everything's just easier for her. So not only do I think she encourages other people to live loud and out there and be honest about what they're feeling, but I think she would rather have that and be able to be there and support that person than just leave them to have their big feelings alone. She wants to be there for people, she wants to help them feel those feelings, and that's what makes her such an incredible friend.
TV: She and Ginny obviously have very opposite personalities, but they both ultimately really prize vulnerability and saying what you mean. I am curious how you see their relationship and how who they are kind of plays off each other.
SW: Well, first of all, I'm just so proud of Max at the very beginning of the show for taking Ginny under her wing. She was written as this popular well-liked character, and obviously when you think popular, you think mean or exclusive. She was never like that with Ginny, she was inclusive, she took her in, she wanted to be friends with her, and I think that was very special. I'm proud of Ginny as a character because I think she is really coming into her own and even the conversation they have at the end of the season where she's like, "I'm allowed to be friends with whoever I want." That's true, she is allowed to do that.
But again, you do have to have some tact with situations like that because you are hurting someone when you say that. And when you say we're growing apart, that is not a nice thing for someone to hear when they love you deeply and they want to be there for you, that's a friend breakup, and those we don't talk about enough in society, but they are killer and they really hurt.
Their evolution has been pretty fun to watch because obviously season one they were close, close, close, and season two we got to see Max be very hurt and Ginny stand up for herself, which was awesome. But yeah, I really thought they would work back to best friend status, and it feels like season 3 did the opposite. Which was also an interesting take because you'd think that someone dying to be there for you would be an excellent resource for Ginny, but Ginny's not about that, she's got too much going on, she doesn't have time to rely on Max because she probably doesn't really trust her in the big emotions.
TV: Do you think Ginny & Georgia season 4 might bring them back together? Do you hope that that would happen?
SW: Selfishly, yes, I hope that happens because I love Toni, and I love Katie [Douglass, who plays Abby], and I love Chelsea [Clark, who plays Norah], and working with them is the best thing ever. But from a character perspective, I really respect that Ginny is like we grew apart and that's okay for me and is like, I don't really need you in my life anymore. I think that's a really hard thing to do as a young woman to recognize what energies serve you and which do not, so I'm proud of Ginny for that.
But for Max, I am worried, because I do think that after all of this bending over backwards trying to please people, trying to be there for people and just being constantly rejected, especially that painful, painful scene in episode 10, I really do think she's going to start turning inwards in a bad way and just be like, "What am I doing wrong? Why am I too much? Everyone says I make everything about me. What is wrong with me?" So I worry for that because I do think that that would be a new layer of Max that we haven't really seen, but only time will tell. I don't have any scripts, this is all speculation for me.
TV: What has your experience been with friendship breakups? How did those feel in your own life?
SW: Oh my God, I hate them so much. I stopped trying to find one best friend because I started getting so worried that if I was too honest with one person that it would be too much. So I started spreading it out over a bunch of people so that they could all handle a little bit of me, and together everyone handled all of me. But now as I get older, I realize that the right people accept all of you and the right people stick around and love you, not in spite of your flaws, but because of them.
TV: Yeah, it was so sad to me when Abby tells us that Max came out with a press conference when she was in third grade, and Abby kind of spits it out like it's an insult. It was so adorable to think of an 8-year-old coming out that way and then the idea that she might grow up to feel ashamed of that…
SW: The thing I always loved about Max is that her sexuality and her queerness, that was never a real talking point in the sense that it was never a coming out story for Max, it was just a huge part of her identity but she was totally confident and totally self-accepting. That comment from Abby is absolutely heartbreaking because it's like, what do you mean? Like you said, the way she threw it at her was an insult, and I think that's very painful to hear from someone who you have spent over half your life loving and being friends with.
The hard thing about friendship is that you do learn the exact things to say to hurt each other. And the thing about trust is that you have to give people the power to hurt you and trust that they won't. At the end of the season, it's a moment where Max has put her trust into people and they've really hurt her.
TV: That brings me to the Marcus of it all and how their relationship is working. The kid flashbacks are really telling about how Marcus has always kind of struggled, and Max has always been encouraged by adults to take on some of that burden for him.
SW: I think you hit the nail on the head there. Max has had to spend her whole life taking care of Marcus and making sure that he feels good and seen and that he always has a buddy. I do think Max and Marcus are best friends, and I do think that they're each other's number one. I don't think you can always see it because of course they're siblings, they're going to bicker and they're going to make fun of each other, but I think that's their love language and I really do think that if anyone hurt Max, Marcus would be the first person to step in and beat them up and vice versa.
But I think, yeah, you said something very interesting, which reminds me of a conversation they had in season 2 where Marcus was talking about why he couldn't be with Ginny. He said she's the only thing that makes me happy and no person should be [wholly] in charge of a person's happiness, no person should have that responsibility. Yet Max has had that responsibility over Marcus her whole life. Her mom being like, "Why don't you make sure that Marcus feels comfortable?" "You should take care of him." It's a lot to put on a fifteen-year-old girl.
I think that's where Max's overextension of love comes from. She's like, if I'm big and happy and taking care of everyone, no one can blame me for anyone else's sadness and I'm doing my due diligence to help my brother, help my friends, help people, I think that's kind of a coping mechanism for her.
TV: No, it is wild that they're 15, especially just because the show has taken place over a relatively short amount of time. I do love the joke in episode 10 that's like, “It's felt like sophomore year was four years long.”
SW: It's painful these days because I do think it takes way too long to make shows, and there's so few episodes when a season does come out. I think that really sucks for fans, and it really sucks for everyone who's invested in the art of television.
However, I feel like I have gotten to spend so much time with Max, and I've gotten so much time to evaluate her and analyze her, and I think that that has really helped me get to know her and perform in a way that is most authentic to the character that the writers have written. There's a certain confidence that comes with time.
TV: Do you feel like you understand Max more than a character like Frankie in Degrassi who you were also playing for several years?
SW: Yes. Frankie is interesting because it really was a character that was created for me. Degrassi was incredible in the sense that they would have these big cattle call auditions where they have everyone come in, and then whoever they liked, they'd be like, oh, we could probably write a role for them. So me and the guy who played my twin on the show, Spencer MacPherson, he and I were both late additions written just because they wanted us around, I guess. We were very, very grateful.
Because of that, I had a lot more ownership of Frankie. They didn't really know where Frankie was going to go and neither did I so that was one thing. Whereas with Max, she's such a specific person and she is so interesting, and there's so many facets to her, and I really do feel like I keep learning new things as time goes on with her. So it just feels like a way bigger undertaking to play Max.
TV: Would you ever reprise Frankie if they did another spinoff?
SW: I want to be employed, whatever employs me. But I'd be so happy to return, I loved those people so much, I still do I hang out with them all the time. I would be happy to go back to Frankie. Also, she had the best wardrobe ever, so would be thrilled to step back into those shoes.
TV: How do you feel about where your career is going right now compared to how you dreamed it might be when you were a young teenager?
SW: It's so insane the way that Ginny & Georgia has blown up. I thought I had absolutely made it on Degrassi because every Uber driver in the world knows Degrassi . They're like, "What do you do?" I'm like, "I'm an actor." They're like, "Have I seen anything you're in?" I'm like, Degrassi . They're like, "I love Degrassi ."
I felt so so proud that I'd gotten to that point. And then Ginny & Georgia happened and it was like that on steroids, and I would never be so bold to say that I've made it, I really don't think that. I'm always going to be uncomfortable with the uncertainty, I'm always going to worry about my next job. I think you're not human if you don't. But I do think that I have been insanely lucky, and I do not take a single day for granted. Even the hard days, I'm just like, oh my God, how lucky I am to get to do this stuff.
TV: I love that. So I wanted to end on quick hit predictions, since you don't have any scripts for season four. Do you want Max and Sophie get back together?
SW: I want that, I love their chemistry I think they're so great together. However, Sophie's going to be in college, so I only think she's going to come back for Thanksgiving and maybe they'll hook up and then it'll be like a goodbye, I love you type situation. But in Max's perfect world, they end up together and they have beautiful, beautiful babies together.
TV: Is there any hope for Silver?
SW: You know what? I think it's a huge betrayal that Max was worried about Marcus all season, and then Silver was just buying him alcohol. What's the word when you let someone do bad habits?
TV: Enabling?
SW: Enabling, yes. I think Silver enabled Marcus all season long, and that was one of Maxine's main sources of stress through this season. So I think that's a huge betrayal, and I don't think there's any way to get trust back after that. So no, I don't think there's any hope for Silver. God bless Katelyn [Wells, who plays Silver], but I don't think that's going to work out.
TV: Who do you hope is Georgia's baby's father, if she is actually pregnant and keeps the pregnancy?
SW: Joe, obvi. She has the best chemistry with Joe, I think that Joe never judges her and loves her for who she is even though she's absolutely psycho sometimes. And it would be very, very difficult to see how Georgia and Paul co-parent when they had such a volatile ending.
TV: Do you think Marcus will recover somewhat during rehab?
SW: Yeah, I do. When he comes home, instead of self-destroying, I think he'll actually look around and see how many people really love him and support him. And hopefully that will be enough to start building his confidence and keep him sober.
TV: For Max, do you feel like it's going to get worse before it gets better? And do you want that as an actor?
SW: You know what, I spent the whole day yesterday with Felix and I heard him talk about going there as an actor, and I think I'm down to do that, but I also care so deeply about Max and it physically hurts me when she makes bad decisions. When she was being a little monster, it's physically painful for me to have to become that way and and hurt the people that I love.
We are very closely intertwined, and I know that I'm not hurt, but I'm still living in her body and me rejecting people, it still feels like me rejecting people. So I hope that it gets better from here on out. But I do think it's going to be a lot more of a personal journey, which we've never really seen from Max because she's always had her journeys laid out for everyone to see. I think this one's going to be a lot more subtle and a lot more internal, which will be interesting to see how [her loved ones] show up.
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